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Are Frame Nets No Longer Legal ???? Updated Info

Discussion in 'Shrimping Chatter = Anything To Do With Shrimping' started by Nautical Gator, Oct 19, 2015.


  1. Nautical Gator

    Nautical Gator Forum Captain, Moderator, Peacekeeper Staff Member
    Thread Started By

    RUSSFLORIDA WROTE

    they're even spreading that lie in coastal angler magazine brevard county issue what a crock
     
  2. Nautical Gator

    Nautical Gator Forum Captain, Moderator, Peacekeeper Staff Member
    Thread Started By

    Yes we know,

    What does that say for someone who clams to know it all?

    Yikes2.jpg
     
  3. Net Master

    Net Master Newbie

    From the mind of the Netmaster: Frame nets for shrimp have been in use now for a long time. There is good reason why monofiliment netting has the advantage over nylon or other stranded twine. Mono sheds water, and most everything in the water that is absorbed by nylon such as plankton, bacteria, jellyfish slime etc. Mono rinses clean and reduces smell when stored. Current law states that any net with a stretched mesh greater than 2" is considered an entangling net. Frame nets for shrimp rarely exceed 1 & 1/2 " stretched mesh. However, another statute exempts dip nets and cast nets from being considered entangling nets when constructed of mono, but fails to include frame nets specifically. So in one statement a frame net (made with mono) is considered and declared an entangling net, and in another it does not meet the definition of the entangling net, due to the mesh size. In the recreational regulations, the paragraph under nets as allowable gear says nothing about what the material the frame net is to be made from. However, beach and haul seines are clearly defined as to the material that they can not be made of. The officers who patrol, protect and watch over the waters we shrimp and fish in, have never (to my knowledge) had an issue with the use of mono frame nets. I'm sure that they use common sense and good discretion when enforcing the regulations. Since the statute was adopted in 1994 frame nets made with mono netting have been used as allowable gear for the taking of shrimp throughout the state without any more negative effects on the environment than other materials used. Humans are not perfect and the laws that humans make are not always perfect and when someone misconstrues and twists the laws for ones own personal agenda and material gain, it only serves to divide and create undue controversy, undermining the trust between the public and the law, and worse yet simply taking away the joy and love for a bit of recreation that we have the privilege of engaging in with family and friends. Those who instigated this controversy, know full well the economic impact it will have on the thousands of folks who will be required to change their perfectly good mono recreational and commercial nets to an inferior product. In fact, I am sure they are banking on it. As for myself, I will wait and see until the issue, that was never really an issue to begin with, is resolved clearly. I will also suspend construction of my collapsible frame nets with or without mono until I have a clear definition. Let us hope that the FWC comes to a swift resolution to this matter. RB O'Brien
     
    lobsterman and Shrimp Gritter like this.
  4. Nautical Gator

    Nautical Gator Forum Captain, Moderator, Peacekeeper Staff Member
    Thread Started By

    Well put Ron, However I do not believe it is the FWC that will have a say, because it is in out Florida Constitution as stated herein, that

    Yes someone has been trying hard to have frame nets with mono banned so that they could sell replacement nylon, cotton netting socks.


    First they point out 68B-4.0081 (b) neglecting to read (a) which clearly stated that they are entangling nets and (b) states that “entangling net prohibited by Article X, Section 16 of the Florida Constitution” ans (d) which clearly states that the definition of an entanglement net , which states, Any such net, with a mesh size greater than 2 inches stretched mesh shall be considered an entangling net

    _____________________________________________

    68B-4.0081 Statewide Net Gear Specifications; Soaking Requirements; Definitions; Cast Net Specifications.

    (a) The use or placement in the water of any gill or entangling nets of any size is prohibited.

    (b) Any net constructed wholly or partially of monofilament or multistrand monofilament material, other than a hand thrown cast net, or a handheld landing or dip net, shall be considered an entangling net prohibited by Article X, Section 16 of the Florida Constitution, and this rule, unless otherwise authorized by rule of the Commission. The term “multistrand monofilament” does not include braided or twisted twines made of nylon, cotton, linen, or polypropylene.

    (d) No person shall fish with, set, or place in the water any net, other than a cast net, landing or dip net, jellyfish paired trawl, or calico scallop otter trawl with a mesh size greater than 2 inches stretched mesh. Any such net, with a mesh size greater than 2 inches stretched mesh shall be considered an entangling net for purposes of paragraph (a).

    _____________________________________________

    Now when you read the Florida Constitution

    CONSTITUTION
    OF THE
    STATE OF FLORIDA
    ARTICLE X MISCELLANEOUS
    SECTION 16. Limiting marine net fishing.
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?submenu=3#A10S16

    (1) No gill nets or other entangling nets shall be used in any Florida waters; and

    (c) For purposes of this section:

    (1) “gill net” means one or more walls of netting which captures saltwater finfish by ensnaring or entangling them in the meshes of the net by the gills, and “entangling net” means a drift net, trammell net, stab net, or any other net which captures saltwater finfish, shellfish, or other marine animals by causing all or part of heads, fins, legs, or other body parts to become entangled or ensnared in the meshes of the net, but a hand thrown cast net is not a gill net or an entangling net;

    _____________________________________________

    Now the FWC so states

    Recreational Shrimping Regulations
    Allowable recreational nets for the harvest of shrimp:

    • Landing or dip net with an opening no larger than 96 inches around the perimeter.
    • Cast net with a stretched length (the distance from the horn at the center of the net, with the net gathered and pulled taut, to the lead line) no greater than 14 feet.
    • Push net - "Push net" means a mesh net or bag attached to the outer edges of a triangular or rectangular rigid frame with a handle attached that is fished by being pushed across the bottom by a person wading.
    • A beach or haul seine with a mesh area no larger than 500 square feet, mesh size no large than 2 inches stretched mesh, and may not be made of monofilament.
    • One frame net with an opening no larger than 16 feet around the perimeter, if deployed from a vessel or from a structure other than an operational bridge or causeway or catwalk attached to such bridge or causeway. "Frame net" means a net in the form of an elongated bag kept open by a rigid frame that is buoyed by floats and is not fished or dragged along the bottom. A Frame net that is dragged or towed is considered to be a trawl, which is not allowed for the recreational harvest of shrimp. Frame nets cannot be used to harvest shrimp in any waters off of Dade County.
    WFC
    Net Limitations
    The use of gill and entangling nets is prohibited
    in all state waters.
    http://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/commercial/

    _____________________________________________


    FISH AND WILDLIFE CONSERVATION COMMISSION
    Marine Fisheries

    RULE NO.:RULE TITLE:

    68B-4.002Gear Definitions
    THE FULL TEXT OF THE PROPOSED RULE IS:

    As used in Division Title 68B, F.A.C., unless otherwise defined:
    (1) through (3) No change.
    (4) “Frame net” means a net in the form of an elongated bag kept open by a rigid frame that is buoyed by floats and deployed behind a vessel, but is not dragged along the bottom.
    (5)
    (4) “Gill net” means one or more walls of netting which captures fish by ensnaring or entangling them in the meshes of the net by the gills. This term does not include a cast net.

    https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ruleno.asp?id=68B-4.002

    _____________________________________________

    68B-4.007 - Rule Repeal
    FISH AND WILDLIFE CONSERVATION COMMISSION. MARINE FISHERIES. GEAR SPECIFICATIONS FOR CERTAIN EAST COAST COUNTIES: CLOSURE OF CERTAIN MARTIN COUNTY WATERS TO SEINE FISHING; REPEALING AND READOPTING A PORTION OF SECTION 6 OF CHAPTER 71-770, LAWS OF FLORIDA, A MARTIN

    Click on a column header below to sort the list. PDF files may be viewed with the free Adobe Acrobat Reader® plug-in.
    Date Event
    12-20-2002 Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (PDF)
    01-30-2003 Notice of No Change Rcvd by JAPC
    02-07-2003 Certified with Dept of State
    02-07-2003 Filed for Adoption with Dept of State
    02-27-2003 Effective Date
    03-20-2003 90-Day Filing Deadline

    _____________________________________________

    I called the FWC at 888-404-FWCC (3922)

    and the said that they did not have it on their hot sheet
    and that they will call to check with marine fisheries.

    It sounds like someone is blowing Smoke
    and that this may be a false rumor.
    they said that they will be calling me back.

    _____________________________________________

    OK this is the REAL SCOOP

    They just called me back and they said that
    There has been NO changes in the use of Frame Nets in the state of Florida,
    and they said it is still legal to use them.

    I hate when people spread false roomers with out checking on them first...

    _____________________________________________
     
    Shrimp Gritter likes this.
  5. Nautical Gator

    Nautical Gator Forum Captain, Moderator, Peacekeeper Staff Member
    Thread Started By

    OK So what does all this mean for the Recreation Shrimper?
    I still believe it means that FRAME NETS ARE STILL LEGAL TO USE mainly because it is not considered an entanglement net according to the Florida Constitution as stated and 68B-4.0081 Statewide Net Gear Specifications.

    I am going to challenge the FWC into giving me a citation then fight it within the courts. So that our Club members, local angling residence, and commercial harvesters will have a definite answer.

    My challenge in the courts will be that the Law and Constitution are clear in there definition of entanglement net, and the rumor is vague. and it is being misinterpreted. and if I can get the citation dropped, that would resolve this issue once and for all.

    Anyone who would like to support my efforts could donate a few bucks to help with my court costs.

    Thanks
    Sam
     
    Shrimp Gritter likes this.
  6. Net Master

    Net Master Newbie

    Well, Sam, it looks like I have a lot of nets to make! That seems clear enough to me.
     
  7. timwfm

    timwfm Junior Member

    Awesome thread. How do we get a hold of a frame net? Where to buy and from who? How much? Please pm me.
     
  8. Nautical Gator

    Nautical Gator Forum Captain, Moderator, Peacekeeper Staff Member
    Thread Started By

  9. robthetimekeeper

    robthetimekeeper Seaworthy

    Happy birthday to Capt. Lee.
     
    timwfm likes this.
  10. timwfm

    timwfm Junior Member

    Really lmfao
     
  11. Nautical Gator

    Nautical Gator Forum Captain, Moderator, Peacekeeper Staff Member
    Thread Started By

    UPDATE:

    I talked with Emily Judd of the FWC this morning at 352-732-1225

    She said that because someone brought the old law to the surface.

    If anyone if caught using a mono frame net
    the FWC is not handing out citations, but instead
    will be educating recreational shrimpers of the old rule and giving out a warning..


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    What everyone can do to help change the old Law on the book
    everyone need to contact the below

    FWC website Top of Page

    Contact

    Rule Change

    http://myfwc.com/about/rules-regulations/changes/

    Current Rulemaking Activity
    We offer the information on this page to help interested parties stay abreast of ongoing rulemaking.
    In the table below, the following terms are used to describe a rule's status (3rd column):
    Rule Development: The rule is in the early stages of development and may or may not have specific language available for review by the public.
    Proposed Rule: This represents a "draft" rule. The language is provided for consideration and may be changed as a result of public input or direction of the Commission.
    Final Rule: This indicates that a final vote has occurred, and Commissioners have approved the exact language of a rule.

    Submit Recommendations for Captive Wildlife Rule Review
    The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is currently reviewing the rules for Captive Wildlife. Please feel free to provide any thoughts or recommendations.
    http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/captive-wildlife/recommendations/

    Florida congressman
    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/FL

    Florida Senator
    https://www.flsenate.gov/Senators
     
  12. keep it reel

    keep it reel Lieutenant Commander

    Here is my thoughts to the senior staff at the FWC

    Hello, it has come to my attention that collapsible frame nets built with monofilament are illegal or are soon to become illegal.
    This poses several concerns for the recreational shrimping community.
    1) safety issue. While shrimping we deploy the collapsible frame nets from our boats while anchored in a current. If something such as a manatee where to get caught in the net the monofilament will rip apart and said marine specie will continue with minor complications.
    With the new netting that is being implemented this same scenario will have a very serious impact on the marine life as well as the people onboard.
    A manatee that is caught in the new material will thrash and try to free itself with negative results while putting at risk the people onboard not to mention other boaters, should the boat come loose from anchor.
    This is the most serious concern for all involved as it should be for the FWC!

    2) financial burden. To replace these nets, the public is expected to pay for a new net that is $150. Or simply do without.

    3) entanglement. The Florida law clearly states that a monofilament net is considered an entanglement device if the stretched net is 2 or more inches.

    I sincerely hope you take this into consideration when forming a final ruling.

    Thank you,
    Kenneth Moran
    Clermont Fl

    I'll continue to contact whoever I can find to put a stop to this as soon as possible.

    Might I suggest that other members do the same as this creates a very serious hazard for us while shrimping.
     
  13. timwfm

    timwfm Junior Member

    Let us know who we need to email this concern to. We can drill them with email and get our thought to them.
     
  14. paleoman

    paleoman Petty Officer

    I sent my comments to FWC .....
     
  15. Arc Roy

    Arc Roy Treasure Hunter

    And I as well!
     
  16. paleoman

    paleoman Petty Officer

    Got a response back from note. Hopefully they are reading it!

    image006.png

    Your message has been received by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) and is being forwarded to an employee involved in the issues you bring to light. Please know that your message will be reviewed with your interest in mind. If requested, you should expect a response shortly. This service is monitored weekdays other than official state holidays from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.
    Answers which require a legal opinion will not be provided as part of this service.
    FWC

    Our Mission: To manage fish and wildlife resources for their long-term well-being and the benefit of people.

    View our Agency Strategic Plan.
     
  17. Nautical Gator

    Nautical Gator Forum Captain, Moderator, Peacekeeper Staff Member
    Thread Started By

    Don't worry we are on top of this, and have permission for new material that will become available soon.
    in the mean time Ron is still making legal frame nets.

    Went up to the Oak hill flea market this morning and talked to Ron O'Brien about his Frame Nets, here is a photo of his new sign...

    dsc01441-jpg.1856.jpg

    Ron O'Brien is the Inventor and innovator or the original collapsible Frame net and meets the Florida Fresh Water Commission FWC regulations and exceeds recreational standards.

    Anyone else making any collapsible Frame nets are infringing upon Ron O'Briens invention and are steeling his design. And we ask that you do not support the low life's that have done so.

    Ron O'Brien has been personally serving anglers and shrimpers exclusively at the Oak Hill Flea Market since 2007. all of his nets are hand build from start to Finnish.

    ShrimpNFishFLorida™ only recommends the best shrimping equipment to all its members... and Ron O'Brien Shrimp dip nets and frame nets are by far the best we have ever found anywhere.


    For more information on Ron O'Brien Shrimp dip nets and frame nets click here.
     
    keep it reel likes this.
  18. friz

    friz Newbie

    I am a recent refugee from (but still follow) another shrimping forum here in Florida. If I recall correctly the Grupenfurher of the forum in February or there abouts posted a "heads up" that the FWC was now enforcing the mono-filament frame net ban. Not too long after she began posting that new, statue compliant nets would be available for sale from a business (iconic) she is associated with. Looks like they cost us $110 - $175. I was curious about what was going on here. I got in touch, phone/email, with one Alan Pierce at the FWC. I presented him the theory that possibly an enterprising business man saw an opportunity for a new frame net market and through whatever means convinced the FWC to begin enforcing a ban on monofilament material after 10 or more years of not doing so! His response was somewhat vague and a little too defensive. It left me still wondering. I recall he termed my idea "completely untrue" among other things but never said "why". So, frame netting for me, in Florida, is a thing of the past. Not going to participate in what could be extortion. My lack of faith in gov't integrity and private business remains. I hope I am wrong and am open to be convinced otherwise.
     
  19. keep it reel

    keep it reel Lieutenant Commander

    Hi Friz, this started year on the other internet site you didn't mention. It was on display on Florida sportsman as well. It was noted on Florida sportsman from "grupenfurer" that after a bunch of phone calls "they won"! That the ban would not go into effect. I'll try to post a link later when I have time.

    http://forums.floridasportsman.com/...5-Box-Frame-and-Seine-Nets-ILLEGAL-IN-FLORISA

    .
     
  20. timwfm

    timwfm Junior Member

    Dip like a man. NO MORE FRAME NET. LOL
     

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