Good To Know Buying A Used Boat -seven Ways To Avoid The Boat Buyer Blues

What A Surveyor Should Look For
By Debbie Schaefer

Here's a detailed summary of exactly what a surveyor
inspects and tests when he or she conducts a marine
survey on your behalf.



During a pre-purchase inspection, the marine surveyor will evaluate the boat’s systems and structure in and out of the water, looking for problems that could require expensive repairs, or that make the boat unseaworthy. The surveyor spends time below-decks, inspecting the engine installation, seacocks, fuel lines, electrical wiring, and plumbing systems, and the hull's interior for structural defects. The surveyor may not be able to detect problems hidden by the boat's permanent structures, like bulkheads or liners. Abovedecks the surveyor will examine the hull, deck fittings, helm station, navigation lights, liferails and pulpit, and other crucial structures. Using nondestructive testing, he'll check for signs of blistering, gelcoat cracking, stress cracks in the fiberglass, and dry rot.

The surveyor will inventory all equipment being sold with the boat that enhances its value. He'll check for safety equipment and list any U.S. Coast Guard required equipment that may be missing.

If you're purchasing a sailboat, it's important to have the rigging inspected. Ask the surveyor whether he will go aloft to make the inspection. A visual check from the deck may not be enough to detect worn or frayed fittings and cable.

When it comes to the engine, all the surveyors we interviewed said they perform only an external inspection of the engine. One surveyor, Jack Hornor from Davidsonville, MD, explained that, "At sea trial, engine operation is checked for RPM, temperature, and alternator output, and for any apparent signs of cooling, lubricating oil, or fuel-oil leaks." He says surveyors generally rely on manufacturer-installed instruments to provide this information. All of the surveyors interviewed for this article said they don’t conduct compression tests or oil-sample analysis, and said they recommend technicians or diesel mechanics if further testing is needed or desired.

If a trailer is part of the package, don't forget to have it inspected too. Make sure it's accurately rated for the size and weight of the boat

 

How to Buy a Used Boat

Whether you’re eyeing an old, beaten-up fiberglass skiff for crabbing or you’re dreaming about a rugged trawler that will help satisfy your dreams of cruising to the islands every winter, buying a used boat is an excellent way to stretch your boating dollars. By purchasing a previously owned vessel, you can often get a much nicer, better outfitted vessel than you’d be able to afford compared to buying new. There are a number of other upsides, to boot.


Boats that were brand new a few years ago, like this 2014 Stamas 289 Tarpon, are now showing up on the used market at reduced prices.

Still, used-boat buying is not without its pitfalls. In many cases you won’t have a new-boat warranty to back you up if something goes wrong, and used boats are, well, used. Much like a home, they can have all sorts of hidden deferred maintenance issues that can make your ownership experience less than pleasant, especially if you’re not particularly handy. Arm yourself with the following bits of knowledge ahead of time, however, and buying a used boat can be a fun and affordable way to get out on the water.

Before going any further, take our quizzes, Used Boat Buying: Are You Ready For This? and Used Boat-Buying Quiz, Part 2: Still Ready? to see if you’re cut out to be a used-boat buyer. If you’re not — no worries! Just make friends with someone who’s already gone down that path, and all you’ll need to bring is your cooler and your fishing rod.

Another good resource to peruse before getting started is our Five Boat Shopping Mistakes to Avoid feature.

Ready? Let’s get started.

What’s Your Type?
Among the first things you’ll want to do is decide which type of boat you’re after, as well as the general size range you’ll consider. Think about this carefully; choosing a vessel that’s incompatible with your own boating mojo can have sad consequences.

First ponder what you’ll use the boat for. Anglers will often home in on center-console, dual-console, bay, bass, and flats boats, while folks who plan to cruise will seek out express, cabin cruiser, and cuddy cabin designs. Maybe wakeboarding or waterskiing is your thing—consider a capable towboat or runabout. Boaters who plan on day-tripping around the lake or their local riverfront might want a pontoon boat. Don’t worry; there’s a boat type out there for just about everyone.


There’s a used boat type out there for almost anyone. A big part of the buying process is evaluating what your interests are and what type of boat is going to serve you best.

Once you’ve decided on a platform that suits your needs, spend some time reading print and online reviews to help you narrow the field down to one or two makes and models that you really like. In the online realm we’re partial to the ones you can find here on Boat Trader or at our colleague sites boats.com and YachtWorld. In print, look for reviews in magazines that cater to your style of boating, whether it’s fishing magazines, watersports rags, or cruising periodicals. Before you know it you’ll have a couple of candidates for your used boat search.

Balancing the Budget
One of the biggest decisions you’ll need to make before setting out on your search is how much money you have to spend, and whether you’ll finance the purchase or pay with your own money. Prospective used-boat buyers who jump into a boat deal not knowing what their financial limits are often have an ownership experience that’s less than pleasant.

If you’re financing, we recommend working with a bank ahead of time to get pre-approved for a loan that you know you’ll have no problem paying back each month. That will allow you to search out and find the perfect boat without worrying whether you’ll have the loot to pay for it. If you’re paying with your own money, consider what you can afford without depleting essential household accounts such as savings and retirement. Trust us, you’re going to have a difficult time enjoying your new boat if you’re working all the time to pay for it or worrying about whether you can afford to send your kid to college. Read Boat Buying: Line Up Your Financing to get an idea of how to get started.


You may be able to save considerable money on a purchase price by buying a boat that needs a heavy cosmetic upgrade — but of course those savings have to be weighed against repair costs. Gary Reich photo.

Also know that your new-to- you boat will come with maintenance, storage, fuel, and other expenses that can be potential budget-busters. Let’s say you buy a boat that’s at the upper end of your monthly payment budget. Add in slip fees, engine maintenance, fuel, upkeep, and unexpected repairs, and you can easily obliterate your monthly budget. Instead, factor in all the ancillary expenses and your boat payment to come up with a total monthly spend you know you can handle.

Think about whether you want to buy a boat that’s in good to excellent condition, or save money by getting one that needs some love, with the plan of fixing it up. The danger for used-boat newbies is agreeing to purchase an old, worn-out boat at a rock-bottom price without having an understanding about how much time and money repairs will require. That $5,000 boat purchase can quickly balloon beyond your means if you underestimate repair costs. And there’s not much worse than having an unusable boat sitting in your driveway because you miscalculated the cost of repairs it needs to be seaworthy. For more on this, see What’s it Going to Cost to Fix This Thing?

Finding the Perfect Match
As you know, the Internet has made everything from booking an airline ticket or ordering a pizza to binge-watching all 50 episodes of Gilligan’s Island easy. It’s also made searching for and finding the perfect boat relatively simple. With geographic limitations removed you’ll find the range of boats to choose from expands exponentially.

Obvious places to begin your search include the thousands of listings you’ll find on Boat Trader, boats.com, or YachtWorld. But other online resources can help you find a boat, too. Honing in on your local scene, check out sites such as Craigslist, or the online classifieds in your local or regional newspapers. Stretching your legs a bit you might try eBay, as well as the classifieds in the back of your favorite boating or fishing magazines. Also give Internet chat forums such as The Hull Truth or similar enthusiast sites a look.


The Internet has made used-boat buying research infinitely easier and more convenient than it was even a decade ago. Make sure to use all the resources available to you online.

Sticking with the online theme, you should also use social media tools such as Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram to your advantage. This can not only help get the word out that you’re on the hunt for a used boat, but also show you prospective boats for sale. You’d be surprised how many of your friends and acquaintances might have a boat they’ve been meaning to sell but just haven’t had the time to list in the conventional places. Social media can help jostle folks into action.

Charitable organizations such as your local Salvation Army and Goodwill are also great places to find a deal, as people donate their boats to these places for a tax write-off. Also check your local yacht clubs and boatyards for boats for sale. The more you think outside the box, the better your chances are of finding a great boat.

Put on Your Game Face
Once you’ve found a boat or two to check out you’ll want to prepare for meeting with the sellers to give each prospective boat the once-over. This first look is one of the most important steps in the buying process, and a time when you’ll want to keep your emotions in check. While the process should definitely be enjoyable and exciting, you don’t want to get over-enthused. This can cloud your judgment and impair your ability to look objectively at any given boat.

When you get your first glance at the boat in question take a mental checklist by asking yourself some questions. First and foremost, how does the boat look? Is it clean, or has it been left uncovered and abused? What do the bilges look like? Is the canvas in good shape, or torn and tattered? Open up lockers and stowage areas—are they neat and well-kept or messy and in disarray? How does the bottom look? Are the engines shiny and clean or covered in dirt and grease? These initial visual clues can tell you a lot about how an owner has cared for a boat. Another issue, especially important in used boats, is your access to important parts. A hard-to-reach hose-clamp or wire terminal may be fine for the early years of a boat’s life, and then need replacement or maintenance—right after you buy the boat.


While you’re looking at a boat’s systems, study how you’ll access important parts, and take into account how much work you’re going to be willing and able to do yourself. Factor in any professional service work in the boat’s future. Melissa Logan photo.

You can also ask the owner some questions that will help you ascertain how the boat was used such as, “How often did you use her last season?” or “When was the last time you had her out?” This can give you an idea if the boat has been sitting unused for an extended period of time, which can lead to problems. Also probe with questions like, “Who maintained the boat?” and “Do you have maintenance records for the engines?” and “Where was the boat stored during the winters?” The answers to these questions will give you an idea of how much or how little TLC the boat has received. And always ask, “Why are you selling the boat?”

All that said, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes used-boat buyers make is passing on a used boat purchase because the vessel is not absolutely perfect. A good example is a buyer who lets an otherwise cherry-condition cabin cruiser go because its cushions need replacing, or because all of its woodwork isn’t in tip-top shape. Used boats are just that—used—and prospective buyers should expect to do some work to make their new acquisition look perfect, inside and out. Remember, you’ll generally enjoy a substantial savings over a new boat by purchasing a used vessel that needs a little care. Maybe you’re considering an old runabout that’s in excellent mechanical and structural shape but will need lots of elbow grease to make the gelcoat gleam. Or perhaps you’ve got your eye on a center-console that’s got dingy brightwork, but has been very well cared for in every other way. Always take into consideration what you’re saving by buying used, and what you’re willing to invest. You’ll often be glad you overlooked a minor cosmetic detail or two for a boat that is in otherwise very good shape.


Sea trials are always exciting, but don’t let emotion rule you., and if you’re new to the game take along an experienced friend and/or your surveyor. Doug Logan photo.

If the boat is still a candidate after the first go-over, you’ll want to take it on a sea trial to assess the condition of the engine(s), steering, and other mechanical systems, as well as to see how the boat performs. To get an idea of what you should look for, read What to Look for on a Sea Trial and Buying a Used Boat: Five Overlooked Things to Check.

If a purchase is imminent after the initial examination and sea trial, it’s often a good idea to get a pro involved to assess the condition and value of your potential purchase. The bigger the boat and the more complex its systems, the more important this is.

That’s where a surveyor comes in.

Survey Says…
A professional surveyor is a person who’s been trained over many years to carefully examine boats and spot hidden problems and defects with a vessel’s structure and systems. They also are qualified to place an estimated market value on the vessel for the purposes of insurance and financing. Prospective buyers can also have the engine(s) surveyed by a qualified engine shop. That said, knowing when to hire a surveyor is often a confusing issue for rookie used-boat buyers.

The cost of a survey will depend on how large the vessel is, as well as how complicated its systems and structures are. For example, a 23-foot open center-console isn’t going to cost you as much to have surveyed as, say, a 34-foot trawler. You can plan on a basic survey costing about $500 to $700, while more a more complex survey can cost as much as $1,000 to $1,500 or more. For that money you’ll get a detailed written report describing the boat’s systems and structures, as well as any defects or problem areas the surveyor finds. The report should also include a reasonable market value.




A good professional surveyor will point out things that need fixing or upgrading, and will provide a full written report. The more complex the boat, the more important it is to hire a surveyor. Doug Logan photo.

If you’re borrowing money to buy a used boat or plan to have it fully insured, the decision of whether or not to hire a surveyor will usually be made by your bank or insurance company—or both. The bank wants to make sure its collateral (the boat) isn’t a hunk of junk or overpriced. The insurance company not only needs a value on the boat, but also wants to make sure it isn’t going to sink to the bottom or catch on fire when you take it out for the first time, causing you to file a costly claim.

However, if financing and replacement insurance are not concerns, and you’re confident in your own ability to spot problems and hidden defects or the boat in an “as is, where is” purchase, then you can probably get away without a survey.

Sealing the Deal
Once you’ve had a survey done, or assessed the condition or value of the boat yourself, you likely know whether or not you’re going to make the purchase. Heck, maybe you knew even before the survey was done. In either case, taking delivery of your previously loved boat is as important as any other step in the process. Before the exchange of money takes place it’s worth giving the boat a final inspection. You’ll want to make sure that any gear that was included in the purchase price is still on board. You’d be surprised how often pieces of essential gear included in the sale go missing at the last minute—think electronics, safety gear, and fishing gear. Next, give the entire boat (and trailer, if included) a close inspection to ensure that no damage has occurred since the vessel was surveyed. Also peek in the bilges, open stowage lockers, and eye the engine(s) to make sure everything is A-OK there, too.

If everything checks out, then it’s time to wrap up any final paperwork and make sure that you’ve secured necessary documents such as title, boat and trailer registration, documentation, maintenance records, warranty papers, etc. No matter the price paid for the boat, always ensure you’ve got a bill of sale; you’ll need it to re-title and register the boat. It’s also handy to have if any sort of dispute arises after the sale.

It’s a Wrap
The only thing left to do is take your new pride and joy home and enjoy it. If you’ve done everything correctly, you’ve got a boat you love and you’ve saved a significant amount of money versus what you’d have spent buying a new boat.

 

Advantages of Buying a Used Boat

Unless you’re buying a classic wooden boat with particular pedigree, most boats don’t appreciate in value the way houses do—they depreciate. They’re more like cars in that respect: Drive it off the lot or away from the dock and its value plummets.

The idea of a brand-new boat is hard to resist, but you might get better value finding a used boat to buy that’s been lightly used at a reduced price and take advantage of all the almost-new-equipment lavished on the boat. It’s true, we love our boats and we lavish gifts upon our loved ones—GPS’s, electronics, charts, fishing equipment, canvas, lines, you name it. Buying a used boat with improvements, equipment, or customizations added to it at below new price levels is a great reason to consider used over new.

If you’re considering the advantages of a used boat, here’s a big one. Once you’ve focused in on a particular make or brand, find out the cost and standard equipment of the boat when it was new. With this as a price and equipment baseline, look for desirable big-ticket item add-ons, like trailers, bow-thrusters, or canvas enclosures that cost thousands of dollars. Scrutinize the equipment list for added equipment. Getting a used boat that has all the practical equipment needed to take the boat out of port is akin to buying a furnished house in move-in-condition. I don’t think you will find too many brand new boats that come with signal flags, flares, life-jackets, emergency medical kits, maybe even dinghy’s and the like—someone else’s new boat outfitting is your used-boat advantage.

Here’s another idea: Ask for maintenance records that show what original or basic equipment has been replaced by newer and possibly better stuff, like new and bigger outboards. If it is a used sailboat you are intent on buying, the better value between identical boats is more than likely reflected in the boat with the better sail inventory. Smaller, non-descript items like cockpit cushions can make your boating more pleasurable and save you hundreds, even thousands, of dollars.

We love our boats and lavish them with gifts. Take advantage of used-boat outfitting; it can save you time, allowing you to enjoy the boat more quickly, and keep a bundle of cash. And, as I wrote in an earlier blog, “End of the Season Cheap Boats” are on sale now.

 

Used Boat Buying Quiz: Are You Ready for This?

It’s probably safe to say not everyone is cut out for the rigors of used-boat ownership. Before you let your boat-buying fever get ahead of you and your wallet, it might be helpful to take the quiz below to see if you have the right stuff.


You may locate a used boat you’ve been dreaming about, but take a deep breath and consider whether you’re ready for the project list after you’ve made the purchase. Doug Logan photo.

This not to talk you out of chasing your boat dreams — it’s just to suggest pausing to make some realistic assessments of what you may be facing when that boat is yours to keep and maintain.

Are you comfortable with risk?
Face it, buying a used boat involves some degree of risk. Yes, there’s less risk involved than there used to be, but still, it’s not as safe as buying a brand-new boat. Or a brand-new anything. That creampuff you bought might have a cracked exhaust manifold that didn’t present itself because the engine was already warm. Or it might be that a manifold bolt has broken off in the cylinder head, and naturally it’s in the hardest place to get to. That means you have put in some bilge time or pay someone else.

Yes, the quality of boats and marine propulsion systems have risen greatly over the last decade, so even used boats are better than they ever have been. But they’re not without risk. You need to ask yourself how comfortable you are with that.

Are you handy?
This is the sequel to risk. If something breaks on your new-to-you boat, are you handy enough to fix it? Can you put a bellows boot on a stern drive? They have a given service interval and they often get overlooked, then split with age and exposure — and they will sink a boat.

Most repairs won’t involve the risk of a sinking, but boats aren’t cars. The environment where they’re used is much harsher. They get bounced around on the water, and things do break. As a friend of mine once said, “Drive your car over six-foot speed bumps and see how long it lasts.”

If you are handy and have an awesome set of tools, you’re good to go, and you’ll find that working on your boat will give you a real sense of satisfaction. If you’re not handy with tools, you have to ask yourself the next question.

Do you mind paying for repairs on a boat you just bought?
The hourly labor rate for a marine technician hovers between $75 and $90 an hour, and that’s not cheap. But if you can’t make the repairs yourself, that’s what you’re looking at, plus parts.

It’s one thing if you’re aware of problems when you agree to buy the boat. You can negotiate against them and get enough of a reduction in price to compensate for the repairs you’ll have to make later. It’ll be the unknowns that get you. Just ask Donald Rumsfeld. In fact, it’s a good idea to budget for unforeseen repairs. That way, if something comes up, you’re not caught with an empty wallet early in the boating season.

Do you have the finances to buy new?
If you have enough financial wherewithal to buy new, that might be the way to go, and every boat manufacturer on the planet agrees with that statement. Just ask them. If you’re not new to boating or you have a lot of money to put down on the boat, or can pay cash, new boats have their obvious benefits. However, if this is your first boat, and you’re just trying to get your feet wet, “gently used” might be the best way to go.

Does everything on your boat need to be ship-shape?
If you’re as fastidious as I am about the condition of your boat, everything needs to be ship-shape. The running joke in our household is that I would like to buy a boat from me. But meticulous owners are hard to find, and so are used boats that have been meticulously cared for. If you have looked at enough used boats over the years, you know exactly what I’m talking about. But you want to keep looking until you find that one boat that strikes the balance between the right price and the right state of repair. I believe there’s one in every price range. They’re just not easy to find. So the next question is especially critical.

Are you patient?
Finding a good used boat takes time. Sites like BoatTrader.com make it easier, but they don’t make it easy. Even if you miss out on a boat, one you know you should have bought, but for whatever reason did not, keep looking. There are more out there. You just have to be patient and stay vigilant. When the next one comes along, you won’t hesitate. And that will be one of the two best days in your life.

NOTE: remember this, if you have two identical boats, side by side, one asking for $75,000.00 and the other asking $100,000.00. you may think that the $75,000.00 is a better deal, but is it?

I have seen people make the same mistake over and over again. they go for the cheaper boat thinking it is the better deal, then after they purchase it, things start to go wrong, mother rebuild, motor replacement, etc. the cost of a new motor in today's market could be a lot higher than the difference in the cost of the two boats.

For example, an outboard cost around $25,000.00 each most offshore boats having two could be a $50,000.00 mistake. and the cost of an inboard diesel around $50,000.00, sometimes it is worth going with the more expansive vessel.

Ask questions. did they purchase the boat new? where do they store it? who maintained the boat? do they have a repair log? what are their boating experience etc? I boat owner that knows his boat inside and out, has a log, and does all their own maintenance, usually is the better value boat.

Search this forum and you will find posts of many members that made some of these mistakes when boat buying. trying to save a buck, the cheap becomes expensive fast.

 

Used Boat-Buying Quiz, Part 2: Still Ready?

A lot of people like the idea of going boating. They imagine sunsets quietly cruising across sun-dappled lagoons, pulling their children on water toys across the lake and rafting up with friends after a day on the water, toasting their wisdom and good fortune of acquiring a good used boat.


Good research takes serious patience. Jumping at the wrong boat can be worse than having no boat at all.

But they don’t see the work that goes into the hobby. And I don’t mean that to scare anybody away from boating. If you think about any worthwhile hobbies that can hold your interest for any respectable length of time, they all take a fair amount of work. Camping? A lot of schlepping goes into that pursuit. Golf? You need hours of practice and instruction to enjoy that game? Bowling? Just try to hit 300 in your first year.

The point is, anything worthwhile takes some work. A few months ago we ran a post called Used Boat-Buying Quiz: Are You Ready for This? It asked some broad questions, like “Are you handy?” and “Are you patient?” Well, if you’re patient enough to keep on exploring used-boat listings, then take this second quiz — it’s more of a micro-level list — and see how you score at the bottom. The first question is a repeat from the earlier quiz, but it’s worth asking again, because jumping at the wrong boat can be worse than having no boat at all.

1. Do you have hours of time and the commitment it takes to find a good used boat?

• A) I’ll do whatever it takes.
• B) I’ll do whatever my wife is OK with.
• C) I’m sure one used boat is just as good as another.
• D) Good used boats can be difficult to find?

2. Do you mind spending hours and days fixing up a boat you just bought?

• A) Bring it on.
• B) I suppose, if I have to.
• C) Oh, heck no.
• D) I don’t own any tools.

3. Do you mind driving a state or two away to get just the right boat?

• A) Ya sure, you betcha.
• B) If I have to.
• C) Locals only, brah.
• D) Uh, no.

4. Are you prepared to shell out several hundred dollars to pay a marine surveyor to inspect a boat that you might not end up buying?

• A) That’s what it takes to get a good one, right?
• B) Is that what it takes to get a good one?
• C) How much does a surveyor cost again?
• D) Then I wouldn’t have any money left for my down payment.

When you get your used boat home, work projects are inevitable — like rewiring things in the bilge with your headlamp on.

5. Are you OK with buying a used boat you haven’t sea trialed?

• A) No.
• B) Maybe.
• C) I don’t know.
• D) What’s a sea trial?

6. Are you a member of all the online boating forums?

• A) Yes, my handle is _____________
• B) I’m on one.
• C) I don’t know any of the online boating forums.
• D) That’s on the computer, right?

7. Can you afford a new boat?

• A) Yes, but I’d rather get a gently used model.
• B) It might be a bit of a stretch, but yes.
• C) Probably not.
• D) Not in a million years.

8. Do you know all the online boating classified websites by heart?

• A) Yes, and they are ________________
• B) BoatTrader.com is it, right?
• C) Um, Craigslist?
• D) I just read the local paper.

For all the times you answered A, give yourself four points. For all the times you answered B, give yourself three points. For C, give yourself 2 and for D, 1.

If you scored between 26 and 32, keep shopping. You’re a prime used-boat shopper. If you scored between 20 and 25, you could be happy with a used boat, but you better hope to get lucky in finding a good one, because you clearly aren’t willing to put in the effort required to find the best one for you. You might consider a new boat. If you scored between, 14 and 19, maybe boating isn’t for you. Try bowling instead. If you scored any less than 14, you probably landed on this quiz page by mistake. Blame Google.

 

Five Boat Shopping Mistakes To Avoid

You hear the stories at the local watering holes all the time — those tales of woe from people whose boats don’t quite measure up. We call them “shoulda, coulda, woulda” stories. The mistakes people make when shopping for a boat are often the same, and you can learn from those mistakes by avoiding them altogether.


If a 2007 Sea Ray 260 Sundancer is the boat you want, then you need to be patient in finding one, willing to travel to see it, and clear about equipment needs and overall cost.

1. Not Using Every Resource Available

Sure, BoatTrader.com is a great resource for finding a used boat. But obviously it’s not the only one. The more particular you are about getting a specific make and model of used boat, the more you will need to look under every rock you can find, metaphorically speaking. Check out Craigslist, and do Google searches on the boat you want. For example, Google “Sea Ray Sundancer 260 for sale” and see what pops up. There are all kinds of metadata sites you’ve never heard of that search through local classified sites and for-sale ads, but they can be really difficult to find. Google makes things simpler by finding and ranking those other sites. And don’t be shy to click on the second and third pages of Google search results. Sometimes the best listings and information are on sites that aren’t as optimized for Google searches as others.

Tell your friends at the sandbar or the local watering hole where you go boating. You never know who they know and what kind of boats their friends might be looking to sell. We live in a world where connections have never been more important. Put yours to good use.

Another good source is forum sites, where you can register and discuss what you’re looking for with like-minded people. Take that Sea Ray 260 Sundancer, for example. You could log on to cruisersforum.com and create a WTB post. WTB is Internet-speak for “want to buy.” That sets in motion a lot of people who might know someone selling theirs. There are also plenty of dedicated owners’ forums for the major boat brands. In this example, Club Sea Ray would be a good resource. Check your forums daily — there’s a lot of churn in the information exchange there.

2. Not Being Patient

How many times have you been lost, only to turn around and then eventually learn you hadn’t gone far enough before turning around? In other words, you lost patience, and gave up before you had a chance at success. Finding a specific kind of used anything can be tough. Finding a specific kind of used boat is no different. It takes dedication, as pointed out above, but it’s probably more important to exercise a great deal of patience in finding what you’re looking for. Keep looking. Keep going. Give yourself a chance to succeed. Turning back early is no way to do that.

3. Focusing on Price, Not on What you Want

There’s a saying I’ve come to enjoy more and more as I age: “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten.” I think that quote is attributable to Aldo Gucci. I don’t know if Gucci ever owned a boat, new or used, but he would have made an intelligent shopper. If you find yourself faced with a choice of a lower-priced boat that doesn’t have everything you wanted, and a boat with a higher price, yet all the equipment you were looking for, in two or three years you will have forgotten how much money you saved. Most likely, you’ll either wish you had anted up for that bimini top or gone to the expense of adding one. Focus on what you want. Price comes second.

4. Not Casting a Net Wide Enough

True story: I once drove from Orlando, Fla., to Nashville, Tenn., to buy a car. I drove up Saturday, checked it out on Sunday morning, then drove home Sunday afternoon and arrived home late that evening. Why?
Because it was clean and well-kept enough for me to consider, it was the color I wanted, and it had the equipment I wanted — and not what I didn’t want. It was also the closest one to me, not that an 1,800-mile round trip in 24 hours strikes me as close. I took a buddy with me and we made a road trip out of it. We drank some beers in Nashville and played some pool and made some great memories.

My point is that I kept widening my circle till I found what I wanted. I could have waited for one to come to me, but when you get impatient it’s better to cast a wider net than it is to settle. I probably would have driven to Chicago if necessary. There’s a fine line between a hobby and mental illness. I get that. But I got the car I wanted, and that’s what counts.

5. Settling

“Oh, well, I can’t find a clean Sea Ray 260 Sundancer, so I guess I’ll just find something else.”

We had names for that kind of person in grade school. Quitter was one of the kinder choices.

I suppose you should be certain that your expectations are realistic. Maybe there aren’t many 10-year-old Sundancers out there with less than 100 hours on them, with full canvas, twin big-blocks, generators, and air conditioning, for less than $25,00. Rather than settling for something you hadn’t set out for, maybe take a look in the mirror and be sure your goals are realistic. But don’t settle. That never works.

 

Used Boats: What’s It Going to Cost to Fix This Thing?

The last boat I bought was sitting on land with nearly a foot of water in the bilge, mold growing on the headliner, and mushrooms popping out of the cushions.

And that was just the inside.

While that might seem as if it was the stupidest purchase anyone could make, I was prepared to supply almost all of my own elbow grease, I knew how to make most of the repairs, and, most importantly, I was armed with a cost-plus-10-percent employee discount at a very well-stocked ship’s chandlery. It also helped that the hull and deck were solid, despite the cosmetic issues.


Big rehab jobs like this are often quoted on a project basis, but sometimes are done by labor hours and materials. You’ll almost always do better by asking for and going with a firm quote for both labor and materials. Photo by Gary Reich.

Buying a boat that needs a little—or a lot—of help is a great way to get a boat that you may not otherwise be able to afford.

But what if you’re not so sure about how to make your own repairs? Or maybe you don’t have a most-excellent wholesale discount at your local marine supply shop. While there’s nothing wrong with buying a boat that needs a lot of tender loving care, you’ll regret not knowing how much the jobs you can’t do yourself will end up costing.

I decided to take a look at some typical repair and service costs, trying to keep the estimates for the under-40-foot crowd, boat-wise. Some of the information comes from first-hand experience, while some of the data came from marine service professionals in the Chesapeake Bay area. Your mileage may vary, and it’s always a good idea to get two or more quotes for big jobs.

Know Your Limits

There’s certainly nothing wrong with doing your own work, but there are certain areas where you can cause more of your own damage than what originally existed. Worse, some systems you work on could potentially create a dangerous situation, resulting in a fire, sinking, or worse.


Before you decide to purchase a fixer-upper, make a laundry list of repairs that you know need to be done. This way you can weigh the costs of doing some of the repairs on your own and hiring out those you’re not equipped to deal with.


I know when to call in the engine guy, and there are certain electrical jobs, especially those with alternating current (AC), which I know a marine electrical technician is going to do more safely than I would.

If you are going to attempt something on your own, make sure you’ve got all the information at hand to do the job right. There are plenty of books and Internet resources to help. Also consider getting involved in the owner’s organizations for your particular craft or boat brand; members have often done the same work you’re attempting, and can often offer their own tips and tricks.


Specialized labor, such as this shipwright repairing a wooden buyboat, will cost you extra and is something to keep in mind before you sign a check toward that new-to-you boat. Photo by Gary Reich.

Boatyard and Shop Basics

Boatyards, fiberglass shops, engine repair outfits, and electronics installers generally all bill their work on a parts and labor basis, though larger jobs are frequently done with a quote that covers both materials and labor for the job inclusively.

Some service outfits are mobile and can come to your boat, while others require your vessel to physically be at their shop. And remember, some of that work might involve a haul-out at extra cost. Some mobile services charge a travel fee, while others do not. Your best bet it to get a firm, fixed quote in writing before any work begins, if possible. Now, let’s get an idea of how much this stuff costs.

Mechanical Systems

The installation or repair of plumbing or HVAC systems is often done by the hour, but the cost of parts and components are what drive job costs up. Whether you’re having a new head and holding tank put in, or an old bilge pump fitted, the type of work involved is often less skill-intensive, meaning labor sometimes runs less than other work. Big jobs like a new HVAC system are generally quoted by the job, including labor and materials.

General service rates for plumbing, HVAC, and other general boat work run anywhere from $65 to $115, in our queries.

Complete systems are often quoted with a firm price for materials and labor to get the whole job done.

This is a great area where you can do your homework and perform some do-it-yourself work.

Engines, Transmissions, Etc.

This is an area of boatwork—aside from very general preventive maintenance like oil changes—where most folks tend to leave it to the pros. Part of the reason is because of the specialized tools often required to facilitate these repairs, but also because, well, most of us don’t know an injector from valve stem.

Engine/transmission rebuilds generally run about 50 to 60 percent of the cost of a brand-new one, depending on the type.


Estimating the cost of engine work can be a tricky. Scheduled maintenance costs are usually fixed, but diagnosis and repair costs are tough to nail down.

Rebuilt/remanufactured engines run about 70 percent the cost of a new one, except when it comes to outboard engines. Their rebuilds have a generally lower cost delta. Yet most folks generally choose to repower, given the new technology and efficiency in these engines.

Labor rates for engine work vary widely, but figure on somewhere between $95 and $130 an hour, plus materials. Yes, that’s a wide range.

Most shops have a fixed, flat-rate price for regular maintenance like oil changes, winterization, or scheduled service. This makes shopping around for the best price easier.

Fiberglass, Gelcoat, Paint, Varnish

This is probably the most labor-intensive work done on boats, primarily because of the extensive prep involved with making a mess of fiberglass look as if nothing ever happened. Almost all fiberglass, gelcoat, and paint work is quoted by the job.


Hull painting and restoration can be an expensive job to hire out, but often gives results that last for decades. Photo by Gary Reich.

Expect to pay anywhere between $150 to $250 per foot (and up) to have a hull painted with any sort of two-part paint, such as Awlgrip, Alexseal, or Imron. You’ll pay approximately the same price to have the decks done, although the per-foot rate can be a bit higher because of the detail work involved.

Bottom painting varies, depending on whether the old bottom paint needs to be stripped or blasted off, and whether haul-out and launch are included, etc. For a haul, prep, bottom paint, and launch job, expect to pay $20 to $40 per foot. Smaller boats on trailers often cost less, as little as $15 per foot in the Chesapeake Bay area.

Different grades/qualities of bottom paint will run pricing up. Ask what type of paint the quote includes and do your research to make sure you’re not getting a couple of cheap coats of crappy paint slapped on.

Varnish/brightwork is usually quoted by the job, since some boats have oodles of teak or mahogany, and some have very little. The condition of the wood counts, too—the worse shape it’s in, the more it will cost to restore.

Electrical/Electronics

This is another area, like engines and transmissions, where getting an expert involved is generally a good idea. That said, there are lots of small 12-volt jobs and less-complicated electronics installations that boat owners can do on their own and save money, such as wiring a bilge pump or installing a GPS unit.


Electrical systems are one place where you can save quite a bit of money by doing the work yourself, as long as you know what you’re doing. You can also utilize resources such as books and online information to help out with any particulars you don’t know. Photo by Gary Reich.

Troubleshooting and repair jobs are generally done by the hour and run between $85 and $125 per hour. These are the types of jobs where you call up and say, “My navigation lights keep tripping the breaker and I can’t figure out why.”

Big jobs, like doing a complete rewiring or installing a new chartplotting suite with autopilot and fishfinder, are often quoted by the job. If you supply your own electronics, figure the aforementioned labor rate may be on the higher end to make up for the markup the installer loses from the equipment sale, slim as it may be.

Certifications

When having serious work done, consider hiring American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) certified technicians or folks with certifications from the electronics and engine manufacturers with gear on your boat. Though it’s not a guarantee of quality, it’s often a sign that the service outfit you’re dealing with values training and doing the job correctly.

Well, if that didn’t talk you out of buying a fixer upper, nothing will. Just joking. If you go into buying a previously loved boat armed with the right mindset and realistic expectations, it can be a great way to save yourself some money, gain a lot of practical experience, and get the boat of your dreams.

 

Boat Buyers Beware Grimy Engines and Bilges

If you’re looking at a used boat, pay close attention to the outward appearance of the engine. Is it clean or grimy with oil? Are there rusty areas under the exhaust outlet or heat exchanger? How about the pan underneath, the surrounding compartment, and the bilge space under the pan?

Is there evidence of an oil or fuel leak? What about black dust from belts that run the alternator and water pumps?


This diesel engine was not leaking fuel or oil, but dust residue from a loose alternator and water-pump belt coated the front of the engine and created a black mess in the catch-pan underneath.

Aside from the sorry look of a grimy engine, there are at least three very good reasons for keeping an engine and engine compartment as clean as possible.

• First comes safety. Accumulated minor fuel and oil spills and leaks create fumes, toxic sheens, and flammable conditions. These things can lead to anything from a queasy, miserable crew to a serious fire. (Any fire on a boat that’s not contained to cook something is serious.) Also, oil in the bilge attracts and clumps with dust, dirt, sawdust, hair, you name it – and that can easily clog a bilge pump.
• Second, a grimy engine hides its secrets: It will be that much harder to spot a new leak if it just blends in with the remains of an old one.
• Third, assuming the bilge pump can operate in a grimy bilge, it will just throw all that oil and grunge overboard, which is highly illegal, and for good reason.

It’s simple: A clean engine and bilge are indications of a conscientious owner; a grubby engine and bilge are signs of…well, a slob. And there are plenty of levels in between.


It’s a lot easier to maintain a clean engine than a grimy one hiding its woeful secrets.

Grime and rust levels that are acceptable or that are deal-breakers depend on a lot of factors, a couple of which are your own engine know-how and your gut instinct about how bad things might be. Often, an engine will have received good basic service from a boatyard or dealer, but the owner won’t have bothered to clean up all the little accumulated drips and drops – and pretty soon a good engine takes on the appearance of a bad one.

One thing’s for sure: It’s a lot easier to maintain an engine that’s in good shape to begin with than to bring one back from a state of serious disrepair.

Good hunting.

 

Buying a Used Boat? How’s the Access to Important Parts?

Since the early days of fiberglass boatbuilding, techniques for making boats strong and leak-resistant — and cheaper and easier to build — have advanced steadily. The accepted method for most boats today is to mold the hull, deck, and possibly an interior pan, as separate units, often with tabs, stringers, bulkhead reinforcements and other details included. The hull is equipped with what it needs, for example an engine, fuel tanks, water tanks, bunks, and so forth, and then the deck is installed permanently on top of it. Today’s hull-to-deck joints are fiberglassed to make a monocoque construction, or bonded with extra-tough sealant and stainless fasteners. They are not meant to come apart. Ever.


There’s no easy access to this stuffing box to tighten or change the shaft packing. A fuel tank was installed above it. A piece of carpet runner is taped under the shaft here to keep parts from falling into a deep bilge while the stuffing box is being worked on. All photos: Doug Logan

Yet some boatbuilders, anxious to get boats out the door and make a sale, can be incredibly lazy, or shortsighted, or downright cynical when they seal in equipment that’s eventually going to need to be maintained or replaced. When you’re looking at used boats, be vigilant about these things. Don’t let a shiny gelcoat and a good-looking engine keep you from digging a little deeper into your possible future with the boat.

Here are five items that you should be wary of. It’s not a full list, but it should serve to get your antennae working.

Fuel Tanks

Tanks that are installed under the deck without access points (preferably inspection ports that offer a view straight to the deepest parts of the tanks) are likely to need attention after a certain number of years, especially metal tanks that hold ethanol-laced gasoline. Plastic tanks aren’t as susceptible to corrosion, but their connections can still fail. Sometimes the only way to get at them is to saw open the deck above them.

Stuffing Boxes

In inboard boats, changing the packing in a traditional stuffing box is a chore that needs to happen every few seasons, and the packing gland itself will probably need to be tightened even more often. Builders sometimes install items above or around the stuffing box in ways that make it difficult to access.


Two of these three plastic through-hull drain fittings have failed, and the hoses have fallen inside the boat.

Plastic Through-Hull Fittings

Plastic through-hull drains at and above the waterline are susceptible to UV degradation. A decade in the hot sun can make them brittle and easily broken. If they fail, you’ll end up seeing daylight through a hole in your hull, and that daylight may only be a couple of inches above your waterline. Can you get to every one of those through-hull fittings, or is one or more locked away, out of reach?

Steering Gear

Whether the boat you’re looking at has cable steering or a hydraulic system like Teleflex, figure out how you’re going to be able to access the most important parts of it. Can you get to both ends of the hydraulic lines? Can you adjust your cable system easily? Are there chafe points to worry about? Thoughtful builders will usually install a messenger line in case new hydraulic lines or cables need to be pulled through inaccessible spaces.


All screw-type hoseclamps eventually need tightening — if they aren’t rusted beyond repair like this one.

Hoseclamps

There’s no such thing as a screw-type hoseclamp that doesn’t eventually need tightening, whether it’s working on seacock plumbing, an engine hose, or a piece galley equipment. But it’s easy to find —- or not find — hoseclamps that have been blocked off behind some other piece of gear or sealed behind a piece of fiberglass, never to be thought of again — until they fail. The more complex the boat you’re looking at, the more you’ll need to take note of its hoseclamp population.

None of this is meant to scare you away from a used boat that you really think is right for you. Almost every boat is home to a few access problems. Just don’t let them surprise you, and if you see a ton of them in one boat, then factor in the time and expense of dealing with each of them if and when the time comes.

 

What to Look for on a Sea Trial

If you can’t afford or don’t have access to a marine surveyor, you will need to rely on yourself to perform the sea trial. By the time you get to this stage of the buying process, you should have a pretty good idea what kind of boat it is you’re considering. You just need to confirm your choice or decide not to buy.

But what does a marine surveyor look for? It starts long before the boat goes in the water.


On your sea-trial, take the boat through a series of left and right turns, checking for play or friction in the steering, prop cavitation, and any unusual sounds. Doug Logan photo.

When the boat is on the trailer, walk around it thumping the sides of the boat with the bottom of your fist. The hull should ring with a solid whump and it should feel firm under your fist. This is particularly important in the transom area, where water intrusion typically appears first.

Look at the condition of the underwater gear. Is the skeg still nicely painted? Is the leading edge still straight and true or is it pocked and jagged from hitting rocks or sandbars? If it is damaged, keep its condition in mind when you shift the boat in and out of gear during the sea trial.

While you’re still on dry land, get on board and see and touch everything. Wiggle the grab rails to see if they’re loose. Sit in the pedestal seats to see if they’re still mounted firmly to the cockpit sole. Open up all the stowage compartments to be sure all the hinges are still solid. Also, use all your senses.

For example, give those stowage compartments a sniff to check for mold or mildew. Also smell under the engine hatch. You likely will smell gasoline to a certain degree, but anything overpowering indicates a fuel leak. Get down on your hands and knees and look in places where you wouldn’t normally look. You may discover missing hardware or frayed carpeting or upholstery.

Now for the sea trial, the most important part. I like the boat to be stone cold when I fire it up for the first time. If the engine’s rotating assembly is going to make any funny noises, it will be when it’s cold. Open the hatch so you can hear everything better. Does the starter engage smoothly and quietly? Does the engine rattle or knock when you start it? It should run with little more than a thrum of vibration and the hiss from the flame arrestor atop the engine.

As you back out, notice how the shifter works. Does it engage forward and reverse when the shifter is moved to the detents? Is there any binding or sticking in the shift cables? Not all signs of trouble will be deal-breakers, but it can help you develop your punch list if you decide to buy it.

When you advance the throttle, notice how difficult or easy it is for the boat to get on plane and see if it’s something you can live with every boating day. Once you’re up and cruising, take it to top speed. The boat should reach and hold that speed with no trouble. If you’re satisfied with the result, bring it back down to cruising speed; 3,500 rpm is a good rule of thumb.

At that speed — in an area where it’s safe to do so — take the boat into right and left turns. Do slalom maneuvers then full-circle turns. The boat should hold its line without hooking, washing out, or blowing out the prop. If the boat has a stepped bottom, don’t trim it down to do these tests. While you’re doing all this, listen for cautionary squeaks and rattles.

If you’re satisfied, cruise it back to the dock the way you normally would. Once you get back to an idle zone, open the engine hatch and do another full sensory check. Many times an engine that has been warmed to operating temperature will act different from one that is still cold.

Will this procedure keep you from buying a lemon? There’s a good chance that any used boat you buy will need some work not long after you buy it. However, I can tell you after years of testing boats using the techniques listed above, you learn a lot about any boat this way. The method will uncover mechanical foibles and idiosyncrasies, yes, but it also will highlight — perhaps most importantly — whether you like it enough to buy it.

 

Buying a Used Boat: Five Overlooked Things to Check

Buying a used boat is a busy time. You’ve been scouring the ads to be able to pounce on the model you want as soon as it becomes available. There’s a lot to consider and even more things to inspect, and that’s where the trouble can start. Buyers place a lot of emphasis on a sea trial, as well they should, but there are a few checks that should be done before you do any driving. It’s easy to forget these items because of everything you’ve got going on. To keep that from happening, here are a few checks that I think are critical to getting a good used boat — or at least avoiding one with more than its share of problems.


Sea trials are important — and fun — but there are some fundamental checks that should come before you even turn the key. All photos: Doug Logan

Cold Start
One thing to insist upon is that the boat you’re looking at be stone cold when you get there. When you fire it up, it should be the first time it’s been started that day, and it gets more critical the older the boat is and the more hours there are on the engine. What does that do, you ask? When an engine sits for a long period, or even just overnight, the oil pressure between all the metal surfaces bleeds off. If there are excess clearances in, say, the connecting rods or main bearings, or even too much clearance between the pistons and cylinder wall, it will often present itself as a telltale metallic knocking, ticking, or slapping on cold start-up. If the boat has been started too soon before you arrive to look at it, you will have lost the opportunity to listen for noises on cold startup.


Snap a photo of the engine hours before heading out on your sea trial, and check the number again when you come back.

Engine Hours
We all love boats with low hours on them, right? Of course, because it means there’s more boat left for us to use once we buy it. Here’s a trick. Check the hour meter when you first get aboard, before start-up, but also check it again after you come back from your sea trial. If the hour meter hasn’t moved, now you know why the engine has such “low hours” on it, and it might be best to move along to another prospect.

Engine Oil
Having a look at the dipstick seems like a basic inspection, but you’d be surprised how often it gets overlooked. Pull the dipstick and study the oil. It shouldn’t be inky black (unless you’re looking at a diesel engine) and if it has just been changed, it should still look close to the way it does when you pour it from the bottle into the engine. There should be no evidence of water in the oil. If there is, you might be looking at head gasket problems. Also smell the oil. It should smell like oil, not like gas. If there’s a strong gas smell, it might indicate problems. Also, while you’re at it, unscrew the oil cap and look underneath it. It should have dark brown residue on it, but anything milky or resembling chocolate milk might also indicate problems with head gaskets.

Drive Oil
On MerCruiser products, whether it’s an Alpha or Bravo drive, the engine compartment has a remote drive oil reservoir. Because the reservoir is translucent plastic, it’s easy to see if the oil is up to the full line, but you’ll want to pull the cap off and check inside for signs of moisture. Water in the drive oil will tell you there’s a leak somewhere in the drive that’s allowing water to seep into the gear case. If this has been going on for a long time, the gears in the drive might be subject to corrosion and pitting, which generates excess heat while in use. It’s quick and easy to check, and there’s usually nothing wrong in a maintained boat — but you don’t want to overlook it.


Check all the main elements of the trailer you’re buying with the boat. This one is sporting a new coupling assembly.

Trailer Health
Most of us are buying boats we can tow behind our trucks to get to the water. That means your purchase is twofold, and the trailer is an important part of it. Before you back the boat into the water, take a moment to do a walkaround inspection of the trailer. You don’t need to break out a magnifying glass, but you do need to have a look at the important parts. Check the condition of the bunk carpeting or the bunk rollers if so equipped. Look at the backs of the wheels to see if there are any indications of brake fluid or bearing grease leaking. Look at the center of the hubs, too. I also like to check the condition where the leaf springs attach to the bogeys — if dual axle — and to the frame. A little rust is to be expected. A lot of rust can leave you stranded when the spring mount fails. Checking the lights is always a plus, as is checking the condition and working order of the coupler, surge brakes, and tongue jack.

 

What Marine Surveyors Look For

If you’re choosy enough to hire a surveyor, it would be helpful to know what they’re looking for. I asked Edward R. Cozzi, president, CEO and professional master surveyor with Performance Marine Surveyors in Boca Raton, Fla. what he looks for. Cozzi specializes in performance boats, but the trouble spots are the same for most recreational craft. If you’re looking at something older or a later model with a lot of hours, a professional survey might be worthwhile.


Hiring a marine surveyor might be money well spent. Photo courtesy of Performance Marine Surveyors.

“Hulls don’t get babied,” said Cozzi. “It may be pretty, it may have the greatest paint job on it, but if the bottom is showing evidence that it’s flexing too much and it’s cracked, then that’s a red flag. And I really have to look at it. I’m also looking for repairs — evidence of repairs in strategic areas where the bottom takes the most abuse.”

Cozzi checks the bottom and the transom for cracks and blisters and evidence of water intrusion using a specialized moisture meter. Any wood or coring in a hull acts like a wick that draws water in through the cracks. What he finds on the bottom tells him where to look once he’s inside. If he finds any problems during the hull inspection, Cozzi gives the buyer the option to proceed. Oftentimes, his findings can be used to renegotiate the price or have the dealer or owner make the necessary repairs. Or the buyer can just walk away to look at another boat.

“The great thing about fiberglass boats is that if the repair is done by the right person, it’s stronger than the original,” he said.

Surveyors cannot do any destructive tests, Cozzi points out. They can’t disassemble or cut or drill, but they are looking for anything that might signal trouble, such as evidence of water or oil leaks, excess corrosion in the engines or drives, excess wear in gimbals and steering systems. He also looks for loose or broken motor mounts.

The most expensive repairs are probably leaking fuel tanks, which are among the first pieces of hardware installed in a boat. That means they’re one of the most difficult to get to. Many times the repair involves cutting the cockpit sole out of the boat, then glassing it back into place.

“Every customer is different,” Cozzi said. “Some guys want turn-key. They only want little minor things to be wrong with it. They want something that someone has really taken care of and they’re willing to pay more money. Then there is the guy who’s looking for a project.”

Though it’s usually the buyer’s responsibility to pay for the survey, it’s money well spent. Cozzi charges $15 a foot for a survey. He also performs a sea trial for $150, which is critical because there are things that don’t show up at the dock or on the trailer that will be revealed on a sea trial. You might consider making any deal contingent upon a sea trial.

Another service Cozzi offers, which is important, is performing compression and leak-down tests on the engine. Simply put, a compression test shows the engine’s ability to generate cylinder pressure, and a leak-down test demonstrates its ability to hold that pressure. Unless it requires removing exhaust or other components, he charges $150 per engine.

Again, it might be money well spent for a boat you’re serious about